Re: [OpenVerse] Speech and other sounds

[Jon Winters <winters@obscurasite.com>]

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Reply-To: openverse@openverse.org

Alex Quintana wrote:
> 
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> Reply-To: openverse@openverse.org
> Reply-To: openverse@openverse.org
> 
> On Mon, 8 Nov 1999, Jon Winters wrote:
> > /. had a story recently on a very early pre-alpha version of a 3D
> > windowmanager.  Might be worthwile to join their developer mailing list
> > and pay attention to how things are taking shape.
> >
> > I imagine the future where everyone has a 3D windowmanager and a OpenVerse
> > like application has replaced the web browser.
> 
> I must strongly disagree on this.  I have seen the images of this '3D' WM
> and it looks, no offense and for lack of a better word, stupid, imo.

PONG looks stupid now and so does most older computer interfaces.  Spent
any time on a legacy system lately?

Everything must start somewhere and the 3Dwm is quite stupid looking
now.  (have you read Snow Crash?)  

Metaverse was 3D and I think the idea has merit.  (there will be many
who agree)
 
> I mean, it has the apps as a flat screen that can be rotated.. just like
> that OpenGL/3dfx or whatever front-end for MAME (Multi Arcade Game
> Emulator).. but there is at least some purpose in the MAME frontend, like
> where you can have a 3D rendition of an arcade machine and the screen is
> tilted like it is in the arcade.

True, but what if you could start to do things like wrap interfaces
around and inside 3D objects.  Our clunky file manager programs would
begin to look stupid to a 3D file manager that keeps all versions of
each document in cronological order.
 
> > The desktop becomes the OpenVerse.  The new graphics cards coming out
> > today can handle the overhead of a 3D shell.  Why has everyone but the
> > gamers remained in the Window Icon Mouse Pointer (WIMP) paradigm?
> 
> because in games, there is a practicalness to 3D.  You can actually make a
> 3D game work.  Applications are generally 2D.

Good point.  Applications weren't always WIMP however,  They were
commandline and they were tape or punchcard before that.  As the power
of our systems goes up developers will be free to make more lifelike
interfaces.

> I mean, why doesn't Star
> Division release a 3D version of Star Office? because it's not practical.

Excellent!!  You're 100% correct that its not practical to make a 3D
office suite today.  I agree with you completely.  What would be
practical??  Hmmmm.... How about a chat application where visitors
represent themselves with a thing called an avatar and interact in 3D
virtual space.  Folks from all over the internet could gather in theese
rooms and discuss all kinds of stuff.  ;-)
 
> since most apps are 2D, it seems silly and unpractical to make a 3D WM,
> when most things will still be flat.

That is why they are showing those 'stupid' pictures at the 3Dwm project
site.  We are fortunate to have one of the applications that is a
'natural fit' for a 3Dwm. We should take advantage of this and at least
look into the possiblity of collaboration.

> as for 3D _applications_ .. just .... go watch jurassic park, in the part
> where the little girl goes to the computer screen and says "This is a UNIX
> system!! I know this!!" and it's some totally off-the-wall unrealistic 3D
> view of directories or something, and definitely nothing like any UNIX
> system I ever saw, but that's beside the point :)

A 3D filesystem is also something that seems like it would be a good
fit.  (think MP3 library)  That would be a nice plugin for OpenVerse 3D.
 
> just take a good look and think if you want that to be the future of the
> desktop :) I certainly don't :)

Point well taken.  Its not something that will be adopted 'overnight'
and there are some who will never take to the idea.  For me it all
depends on the application.  I still use the curses based 'midnight
commander' knockoff of the old DOS Norton Commander.  For me, its faster
than the WIMP style filemanagers.  (and it works the same on different
platforms Linux, OS/2, win32, dos, amiga)  

My imagination kicked into overdrive when I read Snow Crash and I'm dead
set on a 3D metaverse like application.  Right now OpenVerse has a lot
of potnetial and I know someone in the future will pull this thing off. 
(I hope it becomes as widespread and popular as it was in the book)  

This is our chance to turn science fiction into non fiction.  You've got
to be at least a little bit excited about that.
 
> I like the 2D mouse pointer and windows :)

> but as to a 3D openverse type thing, that would be cool, and some things
> like that do exist, and charge you a membership fee and stuff like that
> (ie. Ultra Worlds, or something like that).. but it's not gonna happen in
> tcl/tk :)

How should it be done?  I'm a photographer not a programmer.   I hope we
all agree that there shouldn't be a membership and the grand open model
Cruise is fostering is the correct way to go.
 
> > Add too many cheesey features to OpenVerse and its going to start looking
> > more like Microsoft "Bob" than the Metaverse.  (remember MS "Bob"?!?) :-)
> 
> I agree here. gotta be careful once you start talking about having sounds
> for every single event and stuff like that :) don't wanna take it too far.

I actually found a few pages out there defending MS Bob and some
positive reviews.  It was funny but some of the Bob interface was
simmilar to OpenVerse.

The other night I had my wife here and I was deomonstrating OpenVerse to
her.  She is someone who _hates_ internet chat.  I was reluctant to even
show her OpenVerse. I was quite surprised to see her exclaim that it was
cool and it was "not like chat at all... it was cool"
--
Jon Winters
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